Recently I began using the topical broad spectrum anti-parasite medication Advocate. After 2 months of no improvement with injections of Ivermectin bi-
weekly used in conjunction with NUSTOCK and Mitactin & Sulfinex topical ointments.
This product is marketed under the name Advantage Multi in the USA and as Advocate in other countries. It’s strange that this product is marketed to treat
Sarcoptic Mange and Demodex (Red) Mange outside of the US and has a different label in the states and absolutely no mention of the product treating any
type of Mange. I have really seen no improvement using this product either. I began 25 days ago with the first application and I gave him another today.
You are supposed to give them one dose (different doses for dogs of specific weights) every month; I believed that if I gave him this second dose slightly
earlier maybe he would have a better response. I will continue with the use of Advocate for two more months since I paid $60 for the product and It might
be effective over time +2 months, but I am not hopeful for this. Hopefully it works for other users due to it’s affordable cost and ease of application. The
product is also labled to deal with lice, fleas, tiks and heartworm among others.
A guide for treating a dog with mange 
you are suppose to apply every 2 weeks
my vet also said every two weeks for two to three months.
I realize this is a very old post, but still relevant. My dog had severe mange. Ivermectin caused severe side effects so we started on Advantage Multi. The dose I have used was given weekly and We started seeing resulted quickly. We did however have to continue treatment for months to conquer the mange and the medicine in the states is very expensive.
Like the previous poster stated, for active mange Advantage Multi / Advocate should be applied every two weeks (this is also what my vet recommended). Then once per month as a maintenance dose.
I’ve also heard cedar oil will eliminate mange. Not tried it though.
Hi, we have 2 akitas with mange, dosed with advocate 3x , that is once every 2 weeks as the vet said, with no improvement at all. Some years ago one of them had mange & treated with stronghold-very effective, intend to ask for stronghold in future.
what is stronghold?
You may not realize it but one of the ingredients in Advantage Multi/Advocate is moxidectin.
Sound familiar?? It should — it’s what’s in ProHeart 6 that killed SO many dogs and the FDA demanded Ft. Dodge take it off the market. The moxidectin is, in this case, going into the bloodstream via the skin.
Bayer (via a series of other compaies) is now pretty much controlled by Ft. Dodge — Ft. Dodge always vowed they would ‘bring it back’ both in the US and out of the country. They never admitted any culpability to the thousands of dogs who died from ProJeart 6.
Ivermectin tends to ltimately stop working and usually the more difficult cases of demodex become addicted to the ivermectin. I’ve had really good luck with a program of frequent bathing and boosting the immune system with herbs and supplements — no need for ivermectin nor the mitaban dips. NuStock works well on sarcoptic mange but not on demodex.
Callie-you’re a gal after my heart (or a guy?). Went to your site but will have to postpone some of the in depth reading. I am trying to get the blog owner to start another page on essential oils for treating mange. About 2 or 3 years ago I helped someone with a problem with bedbugs. Long story short, we used cedar oil. I also got some for inside, outside, and a concentrate for livestock and pets because of the fleaproblems here in TX. Again, long story short, I changed to a raw diet (other issues were involved), and treating with the cedar oil was a success, as far as fleas. Since I use herbs now also, I no longer have a great flea issue (they die from drinking my dogs’ herb infested blood), I haven’t had a need for the oil I had left over. But just recently I happened to stumble on something naming cedar oil as an alternative treatment for mites. And I remembered that $99.00 a quart bottle of concentrate I still had a little bit left of somewhere (don’t let that amount deter you). I had already found something listing various oils as the ingredients and puchased the ones I didn’t already have. They are Rosemary, neem, tea tree, and i also added glove oil on my own, and now I am also adding a few drops of the cedar oil. Without the cedar oil, the other oils (mixed together and diluted in extra virgin olive oil) helped to re-moisturize the skin (I was doing the borax-peroxide treatment), help heal and possibly repell, but even the product I found on line called for application twice a day. Now with the cedar oil added I have seen a remarkable difference, after even just one treatment. And my worst case I plan on doing daily, my 2nd worst case I have done twice with a day break in between. This guy, Charlie, starts on his back, then that clears up, and it moves to under his neck and chest. It has been clearing up, but as of late I hadn’t been able to get a grip on it. So I did the borax. His skin got really dry and rough and his neck and chest turn an angry red. So 2 days after the borax I rubbed the entire guy down with the oil mix. Over night the angry red had let up. HIs skin was more pinkish now with the exception of a few red spots. I waited a day and did him all oer again. His neck and chest is so soft now, and the skin color is less red than it had been in a while. What I suspect is, that everything else may very well kill the mites, that’s why initially there seems to be success. But then-BAM-all hell breaks loose-what just happened? You may have killed the mites, but what about the little presents they left behind? The eggs and the larvae have just hatched and were hungry. Cedar oil supposedly kills not only the mites but also the eggs and the larvae. And from what I can see, it does so more effectively than anything else I have used. The ingredients listed are cedar oil and ethyl lactate (a solvent) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_lactate
Supposedly the combination of the two is what makes it effective. Sammie is a real bad case.. He’s been skin and bones for weeks (although he has a good appetite and gets more than all the rest). He’s had his borax treatment and today I oiled him down for the first time (I try to rub off all the sluffed off skin first though). I have high hopes, Through all this I have not had any issues with secondary infection. I am sure the herbs they get daily have a lot to do with that. Time will tell if this combination really does the trick. The best part about this is that I KNOW I am not exposing my babies to toxins and poisons. So while I treat, I am not destroying their immune system but help in building it up to eventually deal with the problem on their own by keeping the mite population in check. Thanks for indulging me and hopefully this will help someone help their little loved one.
PS: Regarding the price of this oil. When I first puchased this, not many were selling it. I recently looked around and found the following:
The formulation I have is 66/33 (66% cedar oil and 33% ethyl lactate) and still costs $99.00
Another site sells a quart for $75.00-this is an 85/15 concentrate
And then I found one that sells it for $35.00/quart. I could not find anything on the percentages but plan on calling them.
Now all of these are highly concentrated and make up to 400 gal solutions, depending on what purpose it’s used for. I only put about 4-5 drops in an 8oz despenser for the oil mix. But i also added a few drops each of rosemary, glove, tea tree, and lavender oils.
Stronghold is the same product that’s called Revolution in the States – the drug name is Selamectin.
It doesn’t work at all well on Demodex — demodex mites never bite the dog at all — they live in hair follicles and skin pores and simply eat skin oil. It’s actually that certain dogs (with flagging immune systems) react to the waste the mites leave in the hair follicles and skin pores and that causes the “mange” (the sore, itchy skin that gives rise to infection, etc.).
Selamectin is systemic — it goes thru the skin and STAYS in the body for at least amonth — and even when “overdosed” at twice a month it still isn’t generally effective.
how can i boost my dog immune system my dog has demodex he is on ivermectin for 2 weeks now ..im not seeing a change vet said i may need to buy another 2 weeks of ivermectin…
If you will email me at
callie at critturs dot com
(omit the spaces and put in the at symbol and the period) — I will send you my article that has all sorts of ways to boost the immune system. It’s not difficult.
Ivermectin really does not kill demodex mites very well — because those mites never touch the bloodstream (and ivermectin only stays in the body 24 hours). But stopping it actually can make a relapse happen because what good ivermectin *does* do is because it artificially boosts the immune system.
The stuff I have to send you is too long to post here — but it’s all good information about how to help your dog get strong enough to control the mites as it should.
I’m really interested in your article/notes. Please email me, any information given about demodecosis. Thank you, in advance.
Ask your vet about Bravecto. One single oral dose takes care of demodectic mange, but also treats your dog for fleas and ticks for 12 weeks.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25881320
I HAVE A 4 MONTH OLD FEMALE LAB, DIAGNOSED WITH DEMODEX CANIS AND HAVE OVER FOUR SPOTS OF AFFECTED WITH THE MANGE. I HAVE DONE TWO TREATMENTS OF THE ADVANTAGE MULTI WITH NO EFFECT. I AM INTERESTED IN HOW TO BOOST HER IMMUNE SYSTEM.
Ask your vet about Bravecto. One single oral dose takes care of demodectic mange, but also treats your dog for fleas and ticks for 12 weeks.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25881320
Advantage Multi is, in my opinion, not good. It’s the same drug that was in ProHeart 6 that caused so many dog deaths several years ago. I will be happy to give you the stuff I’ve written on demodex and how to help the immune system grow stronger. I’m not a business, I sell nothing. This is all stuff you can get at Wal-mart and your local health store, but it’s long — too long to post here. It’s a lot of work, but it **works**. Essentially you bathe the dog frequently (which reduces the skin oil which is what the mites eat) but do a final ‘rinse’ with some essential oils in the water to keep the coat from over-drying. Then you use various herbs (easy to find stuff like echinacea rotated after a few weeks with astragalus, pau d’arco and cat claw and/or some others) — using a dose that is sensible and effective. The third ‘part’ to it is avoiding the triggers that worsen this.
One of the things you **must** consider now is spaying her because part of what causes the problem is sexual maturation. If she’s got stubborn-to-resolve demodex now, it will **worsen** as she begins to mature. Right now the primary stressor is teething and growing, but soon sexual maturation makes it all much worse. She must *not* be bred in any event (demodex is genetic)
If you’ll email me I will be glad to send you what I’ve got written (I’ve collected a LOT of info on demodex). E-mail me at:
callie at critturs dot com
(leave out the spaces and use the period and “at” symbol — I just don’t like spam so I won’t type it out here)
no pesticide is going to work because demodex mites never touch the blood supply — they eat skin oil and never ‘bite’ the dog. But vets really have little to treat demodex with — and honestly most vets won’t tell you to do as much “work” as is necessary to resolve this. I’m just another dog owner who has loved several demodex dogs and I’ve learned what DOES work. There are no magic cures, creams or fixes — you just have to help the immune system mature while making the skin NOT a good habitat for the mites.
If you’ll email me I’l be glad to help. Callie
have any of you considered seeing a veterinary dermatologist? these are specialists in skin disease and demodex is currently not considered “untreatable” but takes a skilled clinician and a well informed owner.
Sally — a veterinarian’s arsenal to treat demodex is limited. The above drug “Advocate” in the UK and “Advantage-Multi” are moxidectin which is the same chemical that killed so many pets from IMHA when it was marketed as Pro-Heart 6.
Most allopathic veterinarians just aren’t comfortable treating by boosting the immune system. That’s understandable — a vet wants to be able to hand someone something to “fix” it. And making changes in the dog’s body by boosting the immune system and strengthening internally just isn’t fast enough for what a lot of people want from a vet. That’s not saying anything bad about the vets — it’s just human nature to want the change to happen fast. Also in many cases, by the time someone finds me online they have aleady spent more on the particular dog than they may be able to — and veterinary specialists are pricey.
It is best to get the mite under control as quickly as possible which is why I, as a veterinarian, am a fan of Bravecto (it also treats fleas and ticks for 12 weeks). But it is also important to boost the immunity, that being said, care needs to be taken when using essential oils as many that humans can tolerate can cause severe gastroenteritis in dogs. It is better to boost the immune system with a healthy diet and proper balance of vitamins and minerals.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25881320
Hi-my dog had demodex when we got her from the local shelter 7 months ago. Her immune system was non-existent and she was as sick as a dog when we got her (extremely underweight, demodex mange, 3 types of worms, kennel cough, a parasite, and fleas). After a few months she was cured of everything, extremely healthy looking and had a full coat. A little less than 2 months ago (and lots of $$$ later) her demodex came back and she started losing hair again. We were using Interceptor which almost cured her (she was completely bald from her neck to tail when we started administering the chewable tablet) in 2 months. They recently stopped manufacturing interceptor right around her last cycle and we feel that we just missed the only product that has worked so far. We tried Ivermectin in low doses and noticed that she started to shake and drool and immediately switched to interceptor. We had her tested at Wash U to see if our dog has adverse reactions to Ivermectin (similar to those of collies), but found that our dog was not sensitive to Ivermectin, so technically we could use it. We refuse to use the acid baths, so we are now left with Ivermectin and Advantage multi-we opted for the latter and are going to try it tonight. We are supposed to apply it every 2 weeks. Anyway, we have been battling mange for a while and are hopeful that Advantage multi (recommended by our specialist) will work as well as interceptor. Anyone have positive results with Advantage multi? If so, how long did it take?
Please — if you don’t believe me, just do an internet search on “moxidectin” — it’s a horrible chemical that the FDA outlawed (but that the company has repeatedly tried to reformulate the delivery system). If you want to email me I’m glad to help.
callie at critturs dot com
(just use the punctuation and omit the spaces) Moxidectin is very dangerous and that’s what’s in Advantage-Multi.
I hope it works for u I used it on my dog 7 years ago of the advocate I used 1 application and it started working straight away her hair grew back fast n healthy. My dog went missing for over 2 months iv just found her she ran away scared of the thunder she has mange again because of the area we live is a tropical area very common in dogs up here so much with mange and no vet
My 11month old staffy cross has generalised dermodectic mange and has been using advocate (Advantage Multi) for 5 weeks our vet instructed us to apply it every week along side antibiotics for the secondary infection. for the first 2 weeks I didn’t notice any difference except the secondary infections clearing up but the last couple of weeks I have noticed that some of his hair has started to grow back and his skin is no where near as bad as before. He will probably have to have another months worth of treatment but im seeing improvements. I upgraded his food to burns (hypo allergenic and organic) so I think thats helped alot. He still licks n chews but not as bad. I reckon if U use it every week then U will see improvements. Hope this helps.
Demodectic mange is an IMMUNE problem — you have to boost the immune system or it will just keep breaking out in other places. You literally have to change the body –vitamins work on a cellular level but do take a long time, herbs jumpstart the immune system.
CAUTION: the cedar oil can be very toxic to dogs — it can cause respiratory problems (I know they sell them, but you don’t want to buy a dog a cedar bed either) — so the cedar oil wouldn’t be my favorite altho I understand what you’re talking about.
So many demodex dogs also have allergies — the two go together very often AND I would particularly avoid the cedar oil on bracheocephalic breeds like any of the bully breeds, boxers, pugs (short nosed dogs) all of which can easily have breathing problems.
Like I said — feel free to email me:
callie at critturs dot com
(leave out the spaces and put in the punctuation)
PLEASE folks — I know some aren’t comfortable with alternative stuff but PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE search “moxidectin” and “ProHeart 6” before you use Advantage-Multi on your dog. Particularly these vets encouraging you to use it frequently — that’s what killed all the dogs with ProHeart 6 — the moxidectin didn’t get out of the body between applications and the resulting over-dose caused liver-failure and other diseases like IMHA that caused death.
ProHeart 6 was a repositol injection which lasted 6 months while Advantage-Multi is a topical. Please don’t equate the two.
You must *equate* the two because the drug is moxidectin. And with Advocate or Advantage-Multi it may be a “topical” but it goes thru the skin **to** the bloodstream to work.
The other thing that should concern everyone is that Advocate/Advantage-Multi is labelled for use once a month — and yet all these vets are using it twice or four times monthly to treat “mange”. The only way Bayer got it allowed back into the US was to promise the FDA that they would *never* over prescribe it again.
I also have two rescue staffy’s that both came down with demodectic mange about 2 weeks after I had them vaccinated at the pound… I have been sucessful using the advantage in conjunction with vitamin pills (zinc, ecinacea and liquid cold and flu tablets for humans), frequent baths and neem oil (natural insecticide) rubbed into their fur. Good luck.
Liquid cold and flu preparations? NOT anything with Tylenol (acetaminaphen) in it ” that is FATAL to dogs (it kills the kidneys immediately — just **1** regular strength Tylenol will kill a small dog)
You are right Callie, nowadays everybody wants it fast, easy, and preferably yesterday. and most vets (not all, but most) are happy to comply and fill their pockets while they’re at it. While some chemicals ‘seem’ to work, they usually don’t in the long run but do more damage by overloading an already immune stressed system with toxins. Regarding cedar oil, I use it for the insecticidal properties. While you are very right about animals already compromised by their makeup as fat as breathing problems, none of my dogs have ever had any detrimental reaction to it. Other essentail oils such as tea tree, eucalyptus, lavender etc may also be used. A responsible pet owner always does their research.
I had mentioned abut Sammie being a pretty bad case in one of my other posts. Well, he’s doing much better and has gained weight back. Also, I read recently that fasting and a diet completely free of carbohydrates can help with mange.
A diet free of **grain** carbs can help a bit but it’s more giving them a balanced diet without the toxic preservatives in many kibbles. Altho I homecook and some carbs (like sweet potato, squashes, etc.) are be valuable anti-oxidants.
Mostly you need to get the immune system to start functioning ON ITS OWN, while keeping the body mite-free (frequent bathing works really well there — work-intensive but it WORKS).
Again — anyone who wants to talk to me abouthow I’ve done this is welcome to email me. I SELL NOTHING — everything you need is available anywhere from Wal-Mart to a health store. No secret ingredients.
callie at critturs dot com
omit the spaces and use the punctuation (sorry, I get tons of spam)
i’ve been using advocate for a while now every 2 weeks to start with but have started using it once per week for the last month. i had the vet take scrappings and test them after using it for a while.
Mange was still present from her last results.
Since we started using it once a week the hair has grown back in,but only time will tell if its killed the mange. More scrappings are due end of november,so we’ll see then…..advocate is licenced in the uk.
Advocate is licensed, yes — but it’s only supposed to be used ONCE a month. You might want to look at a website called http://www.dogsadversereactions.com — there is a HUGE difference between a product being “licensed” and something safe and adviseable. Moxidectin has been hugely linked to diseases like AIHA/IMHA (immune-mediated hemolytic anemia) and it is an overdose of moxidectin that can be one of the primary triggers. They took it off the market for a LONG time in the US, and only brought it back with strong cautions that it not be over-used. AIHA/IMHA is often fatal and if you DO treat it, it is heinously expensive.
Demodectic mange isn’t even sensible to use moxidectin for. Because demodex mites don’t even bite the dog. They live in the hair follicles and skin pores. If you kill the mites today they will be back tomorrow if you don’t address the immune system. They are NORMAL — we humans have them on OUR skin ***all*** the time. (particularly in the oily “T-Zone” between your eyebrows and bridge of your nose). The problem is getting the body to keep them under control.
You can’t expect to just “kill” demodex mites and have the problem go away – it won’t. It’s an immune problem and the mites are present everywhere in life. ALL mammals have them.
They are the same drug — moxidectin. A drug well known to be associated with immune-mediated illness, a drug well known for bad side effects, a drug that was only conditionally put back on the market with the “promise” by the veterinary community that it would not be over-prescribed but would be carefully kept within certain really stringent prescription guidelines — which are known being broken frequently — not just used as a topical once a month but particulalry with demodex I get mail frequently where someone’s vet suggested they use it not even twice a month but weekly to control demodex mites.
The problem with the ProHeart 6 injection was that it stayed in the body longer than they expected it to — that wasn’t just the carrier that was the drug as well — and now it’s being mis-prescribed and over used AGAIN. I will not apologize for making a comparison — it is the SAME drug –just a different delivery method.
just a question, are mitaban dips not advisable too? but our lhasa apso is responding well to it. he’s had 3 sessions of this already the 1st two were done a week apart. the 3rd one was just 3days ago and it was 2 weeks after the 2nd dip. we’ve been battling demodicosis for a year now and this seems to be the only kind of treatment that works for him. he becomes lethargic sometimes so we give him glucose in his water as advised by the vet. is this bad? i’m becoming paranoid now. thanks in advance.
Mitaban really messes with the sugar levels in the body (if you read the insert you should NOT touch it if you, the owner, are diabetic!!!!!) – it can kill a dog that is diabetic. If you have to supplement the body like this it’s dangerous.
I used Mitaban on one of my dogs for a LONG time — it is a huge carcinogen (and Muffin the Intrepid finally DID develope cancer in one of his toes! Seriously — in a TOE — likely from exposure to Mitaban).
If you want to email me I can give you my information. In all the time I used Mitaban I began to see that it was more the bathing **before** the mitaban that kept the mites under control rather than the Mitaban/amitraz itself. And it does nothing at all to try and help the immune system respond correctly. ALL Mitaban/Amitraz does is kill the mites but you can do that better and with far less risk by bathing quite frequently with a pore-opening shampoo (like something with benzoyl peroxide in it). Mitaban is risky for you (or anyone handling it) and it is very toxic to the dog. You can email me at:
callie at critturs dot com
(no spaces, use the punctuation) and I’m glad to help you.
Hi, my pup has demodex since birth probably, and is now 10 months old. Since january I put her on a raw meat en holistic dry food diet (High Tek, Earthborn) and finally I see progress! The dry food diet I choose is with fish. I will keep her on a fish diet for some time, for all the omega 3 and 6 fatty acids she needs to help cure her. She had a horrible healing crisis after I put her on this diet, (she lost all of her fur and had many wounds) but after some weeks she started healing. She is getting all of her fur back slowly (and her spirit!) and once a week I take her to the beach. The seawater is helping to cure her skin faster. I am not using any topical treatment with the exeption of seawater. Demodex is yeast overgrowth in the body so you have to force these mites out out with a good diet! Never give a demodectic dog human foods! Go for raw meat (chickennecks, wings, liver, gizzard) and the all natural holistic dog foods out there. Google before you buy! Earhtborn, Hi Tek, Nature’s variety, are good brands.
Nina — I don’t know if you really meant what you said — but Demodex is ***NOT*** a “yeast overgrowth in the body …” — yeast results from the irritation caused by the demodex mites (they liver i hair follicles and skin pores and it’s actually a kind of allergic reaction between the poop the mites leave and the dog’s skin — that gives rise to staph skin infection and from there yeast). A good food is critical — but in honesty, “good food” is FOOD. There is no such thing as human food being bad. A homecooked diet can be superior for a demodex dog. I’m not anti-raw, however many demodex dogs have immune systems that are **so** genetically flawed that they truly can’t handle the nastier bacteria that “normal” dogs can overcome. Seawater does have healing properties —
Nina, you have a basic mis-understanding of what demodex is. Demodex mites are **NORMAL** — you and I have them on our skin right now in the T-zone between our eyes. It’s not a matter of just ‘getting rid’ of them. If the immune system was what it should be it would keep the mites under control.
What is helping in your case is that the frequent dips in seawater is keeping the dog CLEAN. Literally you can rinse the mites away. Most people can’t do that — you are blessed to be where you can.
You don’t “cure” demodex because it’s not a disease. It’s a flawed immune system and you have to help the body grow *better* by helping the immune system develop. Food is a large part of that.
It makes me sad to know how bad your dog got before it got better. You took an enormous risk there — I’m glad it paid off for you. But please don’t spread mis-information and tell people to do things that anyone who doesn’t live on the coast can’t do.
I’m not anti-raw — but unfortunately I’ve seen dogs with demodex DIE when put on a raw diet by someone convinced that it had to be the total answer. Usually it is not — and even n your case you took an enormous risk and it sounds like your dog had a very difficult time of it.
Honestly, that’s not the usual definition of “healing crisis” — they can be common and super beneficial when using homeopathy — but a healing crisis shouldn’t last more than a couple of days.
Anyone have any experience with the new Interceptor Spectrum. I too had a shih tzu born with mange and kept the mange under control with Interceptor when it was on the market. My doggie lasted a whole three years before a relapse. I am researching the Revolution protocol and have initiated the second dose but do not see much improvement. My doggie is 13 years old and I have dealt with his mange for that long. I would love to read the immune boosting protocol you cite in your replies and will send you an email.
You email me and I’ve already replied — if they market Interceptor the way Novartis has indicated here, it will have the old “program” drug which is a flea egg inhibitor in it. I would NOT want to give that frequently. Revolution is another pesticide that stays in the bloodstream all month — it’s adverse reactions are pretty legendary (particularly for smaller dogs unfortunately). When the dog has been on milbemycin for such a long time, it’s likely there are some liver issues. The sad thing, I think, is that vets simply give these pesticides continually without endeavoring to get resolution to the demodex by helping the body grow stronger — but that’s not the pharmaceutical way. Again — anyone reading is welcome to email me. There ARE things that will help greatly that aren’t pesticides.
oops — I didn’t proofread that — “you emailed me today and I have already replied to you.”
I can’t see your email address — mine is callieatcritturs@yahoo.com
I’ve just been given this from our vet to treat mange, we were advised to use it fortnightly for 3 months. The vet actually uses it fortnightly On his own dog for tick and flea control.
Vets often simply believe sales people — they rely on the reputation of certain vendors. I work a lot with dogs that have immune-mediated problems — AIHA/IMHA … and others. it absolutely appalls me to see how many dogs that ultimately have auto-immune problems were demodex dogs and were treated with ivermectin, moxidectin and selamectin. All three drugs are huge triggers for auto-immune/immune-mediated problems.
Of course a vet is likely to use these preparations on their own dogs — it’s stocked in their clinic. But how long do their dogs live? All of these drugs are used for heartworm. All of these drugs actually manipulate the immune system. And not in a good way. Because most of this stuff is minimally tested … you know it supposedly “works” for this or that — but does anyone ever hear what other health problems are seen in the test dogs? No — because they are destroyed.
IN honesty — if you have read this entire thread? Think about it. Just … plain … think …. it’s a pretty big risk.
My vet prescribed this for my dogs sarcoptic mange and I saw results within 24 hours. After a week his fur has started to grow back.
Sarcops are totally different than demodex mites. They aren’t “natural” to the body – the point is to just kill them (and lots of less toxic stuff will kill sarcops) — but demodex mites are literally on all mammals (You and I included) — you can’t just kill demodex mites. You have to change the immune system so the body controls them (because they are everywhere and are “normal” – it’s just the body’s inability to control demodex mites that is the problem).
My 6 moth old pup was back at the vet last week having had 4 weekly doses of advantage, the vet took a scrape and only found dead mites, yet still prescribed a further 3 once weekly doses of this, along with ongoing anti biotics…..My pups hair looks much better, but my pup is pretty lifeless. I stopped the ant biotics a few days ago and have not given her the advantage this week. I am worried about her, she has no zest for life and i feel like I am living with a 12 year old dog, not a 6 month old pup. I have read this thread 3 times, and this drug is bothering me A LOT! I am making an appointment tomorrow to have my dogs bloods checked, and I have emailed you Callie, and look forward to hearing from you.
3 month old Chihuahua girl. Is a rescue pup.
Tried this last night out of desperation. 24 hours later, I have a very different puppy! Here, in Dominican Republic, we are limited as to what is available. And we have a very huge mange problem, of many more types than the 3 that are often mentioned. YES, there are more than sarcoptic and demodex! I did however discover a couple veterinary shampoos that are quite good, but nothing as good as this so far. For her skin to be calm, I’ve been massaging her with sweet almond oil. Non-toxic so if she licks it … no problem. Hoping it will dissolve the sebaceous ick in her hair. It is dissipating slowly.
She’s gone from being quiet to very playful.
Callie, after all the writing, being very time consuming, you could simply have posted your treatment. We all would appreciate that.
No — because it’s 24 pages long. The problem is that there are a lot of things that can be contra-indicated. It’s not just ABC … it’s often mis-diagnosed, and there are health conditions that can make them unable to respond. “mites” are simply arachnids (spider family) and yes, there are a LOT of them. There are a lot of “treatments” just being posted out there and a lot of them are darned dangerous. I don’t want to be guilty of just adding to the general mis-information out there. I’m very willing to help — my email is callieatcritturs@yahoo.com. If it were a “one size fits all” thing vets would have an easier time treating it.
Has anyone every tried diatomaceous earth powder for demodex? Its a very fine powder like baby powder but is used to dry out the waxy shells of insects and mites. DO NOT use this in a very enclosed area as like I said, the powder is very fine and we don’t want breathing issues, and it is INCREDIBLY drying so PLEASE if you use this, feed oils and a proper diet so the skin doesn’t dry out. This can also be used in the diet (i use 1 teaspoon 2 x a week) for internal parasites such as hookworms, pinworms, etc… My 11 month old GSD has been battling with mange for months now. However I have 2 vets fighting over which strain it is. 1 says demodex cuz the other cant find the sarcoptic scabies. However sarcoptic mange is very very difficult to find as it buries itself way under the skin. Her symptoms present as both. Whenever I look up demodex or sarcoptic mange I find pics of both that look like what my dog has. So I’m convinced it could be both! I am overly frustrated with this issue. Unfortunately I didn’t want to dose her with anything since I’m against the whole chemical issue, but the way she scratches and bites at herself, I gave in and used the advantage multi 2x now. I ONLY did this because sarcoptic mange is also a possibility. Which actually will feed off blood and die should it ingest the chemical. As per demodex, as much as a vet will tell you it will treat it, NO IT WONT, as stated many times above, demodex mites live in the hair follicle, not directly under the skin like sarcoptic. So I use advantage multi for the sarcoptic, and diatomaceous earth powder for the demodex, and I have noticed her hair growing back on her back, but need to wait and see about the rest. Callie I wouldnt mind having your treatment as well. I currently feed raw, and add veggies, vitamins, supplements, oils etc… but maybe I can grab others off your list that will help her as well.
You can’t treat demodex with DE because demodex mites don’t come to the surface of the skin much – they live in hair follicles and skin pores. You can’t treat it orally with DE (and for anyone reading you ***MUST*** use food-grade diatomaceous earth on dogs either on their skin or orally — do *not* use what you get at Home Depot — that is for outside use *only*).
Demodex mites and sarcops are both “mites” (meaning they are both arachnids) but there the similarity ends. NOT just a different variety — but an entirely different insect all together. Sarcoptic mites feed on blood. Demodex mites feed on skin oil. Sarcoptic mites bite the dog and cause unbelievably fierce itching. Demodex mites only cause a problem because they can proliferate and the mite’s waste in the skin pores/hair follicles causes an almost allergic like reaction that causes itching in some dogs.
But demodex mites are the result of a flawed immune system. It’s not something you get rid of at all — it’s not the mites themselves that cause the problem — it’s the fact that the body won’t keep them under control as it should.
Demodex mites are **normal**. All mammals have them (including we humans). You can’t ‘get rid of them’ — the body **must** control them to get resolution of this.
Sarcoptic mites are not normal — you have to eradicate them and keep the dog away from the source (and also boost the immune system to make the dog less prone to getting them again).
I’ve sent you my article. Anyone else who wants it just email me at callieatcritturs@yahoo.com.
I to have been advised to use Advocate and it did work with the mange for almost a year when it stopped and the mange returned.My vet has swopped me to Strong hold.This is my first one so fingers crossed it helps my poor dog.
In the US “Mitacin” is “moxidectin” — it’s the same drug that was in ProHeart 6 (the shot for heartworm) that caused thousands of dog deaths due to AIHA (aka “Immune Medicated Hemolytic Anemia). It is a heinous drug — all heartworm medicines essentially turn the immune system “on” — but when used more than once a month in the tiny heartworm dose,
it essentially keeps the immune system open full throttle … and the immune system may literally fail to “turn off” — so the immune system trolls the body over and over looking for any possible thing to “kill”. and things like red blood cells/antibodies become targets (antibodies are the things the immune system forms after exposure to disease or a vaccination so it *looks* like a target because it contains DNA/RNA of the disease so the body can kill it if threatened with that again). That then can further generalize to the body killing all red cells or, sometimes, platelets. *Not ALL dogs who take this get an immune-mediated disease but it ramps the chances way up*
Demodex mites never touch the blood supply because they don’t bite the dog. So one of the reasons they use such massive doses of these paraciticides is to try to drive it into the skin.
Moxidectin, in particular, was outlawed in the States years ago and the company, Ft. Dodge, who originally made ProHeart 6 reorganized itself as Bayer’s Animal Division. They went to the UK and Australia, New Zealand where it wasn’t known and got enough positive feedback to be allowed to be sold here as Advantage-Multi.
But when the FDA approved it, there was a huge qualification — they were never *ever* to encourage it to be prescribed more than just the once a month heartworm dose.
All of the paraciticides will eventually stop working (and the body is never able to get rid of the residue they leave). Things like NuStock work fine on sarcoptic mites but not on demodex mites — in fact any topical that is for sarcops can be injurious to the dog with demodex because it is not made for broken skin (typically a dog with sarcops scratches constantly all over – and you will see calloused skin but not usually bleeding skin).
Again I offer my email for anyone who cares. My Billy had been on ivermectin as a puppy — likely in the massive doses they use daily for demodex (the dose they give daily for ivermectin is 200 times the dose needed to kill heartworm microfilaria ). Billy had IMHA – which is one of the reasons why I know so much about it. I had him diagnosed by a vet at the University of Florida who helps detox dogs who have been exposed to heavy metal poisoning and she found tons of ivermectin in Billy’s system. But I am finding a large correlation between dogs who were treated with the chemicals for demodex and dogs who later develop IMHA or AIHA or IMT or any of the other immune-mediated diseases.
callieatcritturs@yahoo.com —
It states on the Advantage Multi (United States) packaging label that it treats sarcoptic mange. It states on Advocate (outside the US) that is treats both.
It’s the same drug (moxidectin) in both Advantage-Multi and Advocate. When they wanted to bring moxidectin/Advantage-Multi into this country again it had previously been banned by the FDA. In order to bring it into this country Bayer (formerly Ft. Doddge) had to promise not to encourage the drug to be used any more often than once a month, so generally any instruction to use Advantage-Multi more than once a month is “off label” use and not supposed to be done (which includes giving it 2 to 4 times a month for demodex. The assumption is that sarcops can be killed with one application.
I’m using this too my vet told me to apply every 2 weeks.
Try useing diamoteous earth food grade must be food grade u can purchase at your local heath store .it kills every mite flea tick. Please go on line & research this product you’ll save so much money & your pet will love u for it
You have to apply Advantage Multi once every two weeks to cure the mange.
Pls assist me as my dog demodex mange for 4 months..
If you email me at callieatcritturs@yahoo.com I’ll send you what I’ve written and help you.
Advantage Multi definitely cures mange, but my vet said it takes around 5 months of using it twice a month, which works for me.
I got what you intend, regards for posting .Woh I am glad to find this website through google. “Money is the most egalitarian force in society. It confers power on whoever holds it.” by Roger Starr.
The product should be applied every 2 weeks for mange.
Unfortunately I have found this site too late.
I was travelling in India and began helping street dogs. One of these was an abandoned Tibetan Mastiff (nomad type), severely ill (a day or two from dying) with terrible skin issues which were infested with maggots. There was a local vet but testing and diagnosis was non existent (it was a small tourist town) and treatment consisted of initial fluid therapy and topical maggoticide cream followed by somewhat random courses of antibiotics and, if he was particularly itchy and scratching, steroids (both human grade – products specifically for animals were again non existent), plus monthly bathing. We also shaved off his fur. His diet consisted of yoghurt, rice mixed with Pedigree pouches, Pedigree dry food, and boiled eggs (Pedigree was the only available dog food).
I found him in September 2015, he was age one and a half.
I fell in love with this dog (Senti) and adopted him and brought him back to the UK in May 2016. He was now 2 years old.
In the UK, he had skin scrapings and was diagnosed with demodectic mange. Treatment was Nexgard Spectra given orally every 2 weeks. After approximately 4 months this was reduced to once every 3 weeks, and after another 4 months reduced again to once every 4 weeks. After reducing to once every 4 weeks, there seemed to be a relapse with a lot of itchiness and scratching, and the dose was increased to fortnightly again. I then noticed a change after a further 2 or 3 months – the particular demodectic smell disappeared, his skin was not oily and he had no itching – and I was able to switch him permanently to once monthly in May this year.
He was also bathed with Coatex medicated shampoo weekly for the first month, then monthly for a couple of months, then every 3 months. The vet recommended ongoing weekly bathing but Senti hated being washed and it was very difficult.
His diet in the UK consisted of Vets Kitchen dry food topped with either cooked chicken, ham slices, sardine in spring water, tinned salmon, or cooked white fish.
He seemed to be doing well. His coat had fully regrown and was thick and shiney, his weight was stable, his appetite was good, bowel movements were normal, he was happy and active.
On November 9 the vet recommended a LeptoMulti vaccination booster.
He went off his food for a day following the vaccination, then started eating normally again. However he began vomiting and stopped eating altogether on 25 November. A vet diagnosed acute kidney failure on 29 November (the vomiting was secondary to the kidney failure) but he didn’t respond to fluid therapy and died on 30 November.
I now realize demodectic mange can be an indicator of underlying health issues, and I wonder why the vet didn’t recommend Senti undergo a full medical screening with blood and urine analysis, particularly as he was also a rescue street dog. However he didn’t, and I believed in his treatment plan.
Now Senti is dead and it’s a tragedy for him and for me. Do you have any insights as to what might have happened here?
I am so sorry you lost your dog. I think rena? dailure is one od the worst things to watch. but I am not survived. Using tnings like Advanfwge Multi frequently is dangerous. These pesticides go into the bloodstream and *stay*. they are hard on the kidneys and liver. but even more these pesticides severely affect the immune system long term becsuse the ones that are systemic also have immune boosting properties. This is the main reason they appear to help demodex. The problem is the ultimate cost is that it creates an environment in the body ripe for auto immune disease. I also help a lot of families with dogs with IMHA (immune- mediated hc anemia .! the body kills its own red cells. Moxidectin is know n to be associated w IMHA (very fatal very fastvoftentimes). It is fg to me how many dogs wind up with IMHA who had demodex and were treated with moxidectin or another parasiticide. Those parasiticides are the same ones they ry on so heavily to treat demodex. But by the same token this false immune boost that parasiticides give also stifles the body’s ability to cope w things like cancer …in addition to exposing the body to things so harsh on the kidneys and liver
There are two active ingredients in NEXGARD SPECTRA:
Afoxolaner.
Milbemycin oxime
Do you know if these can damage the kidney
The kidneys remove waste from the body — so anything the body sees as a toxin is going to impact that organ. Both NexGuard and Bravecto (two very similar drugs — Afoxolaner. and Fluralaner_ are BOTH being strongly implicated in Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia (IMHA – where the body kills its own red cells) and Immune mediated thrombocytopenia (IMT — where the body kills its own platelets). Both companies are trying hard to do damage control and I’m not seeing a lot of in depth side effects listed. Any time you mix a parasiticide with any sort of other pesticide you invite big problems. The more they try for “convenience” the more danagerous it seems to become.
So the combination of the leptosirosis vaccination (lepto multi, also by Merial) combined with the Nexgard Spectra (which Senti had been having double doses of for 6 months or so) probably overwhelmed my poor little dog, who already had compromised health following his early life on the streets in India.
It’s heartbreaking – we think we are doing our best for our pets but we are just dollar signs for giant pharmaceutical companies.
I requested my vet report Senti’s death as possibly linked to the vaccination, but I will now request that it be reported as possibly linked to Nexgard too.
I have been more careful with my cat.
I previously had another elderly cat who was diagnosed with chronic kidney failure age 17. I took her for feline acupuncture which helped manage her condition and she appeared to be doing well 10 months after the diagnosis. Despite her underlying ill health, her day to day vet advised vaccinating as normal – I shouldn’t have listened to him, she finally died of kidney failure a few weeks after these vaccinations.
Because of this, my current 14 year old cat has never been vaccinated. I occasionally use Frontline or Advocat spot on treatments on him, again out of caution never more than once per 3 months, the last time was approximately June 2017.
But I have decided to only use natural remedies from now on, I will start by trying rosemary washes, I found this information:
“Fleas hate rosemary. It can also be used as a wash if you boil the leaves in water, allow the mixture to cool, and let your cat soak it in. It has anti-inflammatory properties that should soothe any itch”
Does any company commercially produce a product using only natural ingredients (no chemicals at all) specifically for flea prevention or flea treatment or itch relief for cats and dogs.
however — be **VERY** cautious with rosemary. Anything in the pine/balsam family can trigger seizures.
After reading your post, I have just looked into IMHA where the immune system destroys its own red blood cells
Senti was a Tibetan Mastiff – this breed typically lives at very high altitudes in the Himalayas, and has a low red blood cell count to enable it to live in high altitudes
Would that make Senti more susceptible to IMHA?
If generalised demodectic mange is associated with weak immune system function, should Senti have even been vaccinated? Was my vet negligent in vaccinating him when he had only recently recovered from generalised demodectic mange?
the thing that causes the problem is the vaccines — if you have never had bloodwork done on this dog DO IT now so you at least have a baseline. I wouldn’t say a lower general PCV would predispose them to IMHA, BUT vaccinations will. There are some breed-related tendencies to IMHA but mastiffs generally aren’t massively involved. But vaccinated dogs can be.
The bottle of vaccine says “do not administer to an individual who is not in good health” — your vet should have TOLD you that vaccines can cause demodex to flare … and honestly you want any vaccines to be totally minimal and not repeated. Use titer testing as much as possible. Feel free to email me at callieatcritturs@yahoo.com if you want more information
The Tibetan Mastiff is not actually a mastiff type, it was just called a mastiff by the first western travellers to Tibet because of its large size. Tibetan Mastiffs are classed as primitive guardian type dogs, I think behaviorally similar to breeds like Bernese Mountain dogs.
Unfortunately the dog died after the vaccination (original post above)
it looks as If the vet was negligent
I am sorry — but you are likely right. Unfortunately vets begin to believe the hype that somehow vaccines make you healthier and they don’t.